Entrevista com Florian Wettstein, por Rafael Miranda

Entrevista com Florian Wettstein

Esta entrevista foi realizada originalmente em inglês em dezembro de 2023.

Florian Wettstein é catedrático e professor de ética empresarial e diretor do Instituto de Ética Empresarial da Universidade de St. Gallen, na Suíça. Wettstein publicou amplamente sobre tópicos na interseção de responsabilidade corporativa, ética empresarial e direitos humanos, e colaborou com governos, sociedade civil e setor privado em várias iniciativas e projetos nessas áreas. Ele é o autor de Multinational Corporations and Global Justice: Human Rights Obligations of a Quasi-Governmental Institution (Stanford University Press, 2009) e do livro Business and Human Rights: Ethical, Legal, and Managerial Perspectives (Cambridge University Press, 2022). Wettstein é um dos editores-chefes fundadores do Business and Human Rights Journal (BHRJ) e atualmente é presidente da International Society for Business, Economics and Ethics (ISBEE).

Rafael Miranda é doutorando em Ciência Política pelo Departamento de Ciência Política da Universidade de São Paulo (DCP-USP). Ele é mestre em Relações Internacionais pelo Instituto de Relações Internacionais da Universidade de São Paulo (IRI-USP) e bacharel em Relações Internacionais pela Fundação Escola de Comércio Álvares Penteado (FECAP). Na FECAP, Rafael Miranda atua como professor no curso de graduação em Relações Internacionais e no curso de pós-graduação em Negócios Internacionais. Desde 2018, ele é responsável pela direção de projetos estratégicos cofinanciados pela Comissão Europeia para a instituição. Atualmente, ele ocupa o cargo de codiretor do Centro de Excelência Jean Monnet em Empresas e Direitos Humanos. No campo da pesquisa, Rafael é bolsista de doutorado no Centro de Inteligência Artificial da Universidade de São Paulo (C4AI - USP/FAPESP/IBM), explorando a interseção entre ética e inteligência artificial, e é membro do Grupo de Ética da iniciativa Understanding Artificial Intelligence (UAI), filiada ao Instituto de Estudos Avançados da USP.

Versão Original

Interview with Florian Wettstein

Florian Wettstein is chair and professor of business ethics and director of the Institute for Business Ethics at University of St. Gallen in Switzerland.  Wettstein has published widely on topics at the intersection of corporate responsibility, business ethics and business and human rights and has collaborated with governments, civil society and the private sector on numerous initiatives and projects in these fields. He is the author of Multinational Corporations and Global Justice: Human Rights Obligations of a Quasi-Governmental Institution (Stanford University Press, 2009) and of the textbook Business and Human Rights: Ethical, Legal, and Managerial Perspectives (Cambridge University Press, 2022). Wettstein is one of the founding Editors-in-Chief of the Business and Human Rights Journal (BHRJ) and currently serves as the President  of the International Society for Business, Economics and Ethics (ISBEE).

Rafael Miranda is currently a Ph.D. candidate in Political Science at the Department of Political Science of the University of São Paulo (DCP-USP). He holds a Master’s degree in International Relations from the Institute of International Relations at the University of São Paulo (IRI-USP) and a Bachelor’s degree in International Relations from the Fundação Escola de Comércio Álvares Penteado (FECAP). At FECAP, Rafael Miranda serves as a professor in the undergraduate program of International Relations and in the Graduate program of International Business. Since 2018, he has been responsible for steering strategic projects co-financed by the European Commission for the University. Currently, he holds the position of Co-Director of the Jean Monnet Center of Excellence in Business and Human Rights. In the field of advanced research, Rafael is a doctoral fellow at the Center for Artificial Intelligence at the University of São Paulo (C4AI – USP/FAPESP/IBM), exploring the intersection of ethics and artificial intelligence and member of the Ethics Group of Understanding Artificial Intelligence (UAI) at the Institute of Advanced Studies at USP.

Rafael Miranda: Artificial intelligence has become increasingly integrated into various aspects of business operations, from decision-making algorithms to customer interactions. This widespread use of AI technology has raised concerns about its potential impact on business ethics. In your view, what are the key ethical challenges and dilemmas posed using AI in business?

Florian Wettstein: There are a variety of problematic issues connected to the use of AI. Many of them are connected to biased decision making based on flawed algorithms and/or the use of incomplete and biased historic data. Rather than improving decision-making processes, this can compound existing marginalization and discrimination of underrepresented and vulnerable groups and individuals.

However, there is a larger underlying issue connected to the expanded use of AI. By doing so we are creating a space of blurred responsibility and non-accountability. In other words, if AI-made decisions cause harm, it is unclear who is to be held responsible and accountable for the damage. This in and of itself is a symptom of eroding human autonomy and thus, to use Kant’s words, a potential relaps into a self-inflicted immaturity.

Rafael Miranda: In this rapidly evolving landscape, businesses are at the forefront of AI development and deployment. In this sense, what role do (or should) companies play in ensuring that AI technologies are developed and deployed in conformity to human rights?

Florian Wettstein: At minimum they should make sure that their own AI-related business activities are in conformity with the United Nations Guiding Principles for Business and Human Rights (UNGPs). However, in addition to such ‘business integrity’, companies have a political responsibility: to help develop and promote industry-wide standards (in line with the UNGPs) and to cooperate and work with regulators to enable meaningful regulation that mandates a minimum standard of responsible, human rights respecting business conduct.

Rafael Miranda: The ethical implications of AI in business extend beyond individual organizations. Given the ethical concerns surrounding AI in business, what are your thoughts on the role of government regulations and industry standards in ensuring responsible AI use?

Florian Wettstein: both of those are essential. Governments need to define the rules of the game and make sure those are enforced in a meaningful way. However, in a hyperglobalized economy, governments face severe constraints in terms fo their ability to regulate as well. This is why regional or even global standards will be of utmost importance. The EU is leading the way in this regard. However, such regulation does not make industry standards unnecessary. Such industry standards can specify and contextualize government regulation and provide concrete guidance for businesses in regard to its implementation. Such industry standards can also provide a frame for the evolution and improvement of government regulation – the latter point connects back to the above-mentioned political responsibility of companies.

Rafael Miranda: And how do you see the relationship between external regulations and self-regulation of AI use in business?

Florian Wettstein: The discussion on those two modes of regulation is often antagonistic: hard regulation is portrayed as the solution to all problems, while soft regulation is decried as ineffecive and counter-productive – or vice versa. Such ‘absolutist’ positions are not really helpful. Research shows that the question is not one about either or, but about how to combine both forms of regulation in the most effective ways. In a recent paper, we showed that hard and soft regulation can be mutually reinforcing and that they are co-dependent to lead to the desired impact.

Rafael Miranda: Global supply chains often involve complex networks of suppliers, manufacturers and laborers, posing significant human rights challenges. Do you see AI as a potential aid for monitoring and safeguarding human rights within supply chains?

Florian Wettstein: There has been quite a bit of talk – if not to say ‘hype’ – around blockchain technology and its potential to improve transparency and traceability along multinational value chains. Various AI applications may provide a further push to improve supply chain governance. However, amidst all the hope we put into such technological advances, we should keep two caveats in mind: first, as mentioned earlier, such technology comes with its own problems. As large is the promise of blockchain technology, as prevalent is its potential for abuse. The same goes for potential AI solutions. This is why it is important that such technology is itself developed and deployed in line with human rights standards. Second, there is a risk that we are merely trying to address the symptoms of a larger underlying problem by developing more powerful instruments for the monitoring and governance of supply chains. It is essential that we change the mode of doing business to begin with, the actual business models, the purchasing practices, develop new partnership models with suppliers, and change the culture and mindset of companies.

Rafael Miranda: Which future do you envision for the interplay between AI and business ethics, and how should academia and industry collaborate to steer it in an ethical direction?

Florian Wettstein: The rise of AI underscores the importance of business ethics as a discipline. Business ethics can contribute to developing a better understanding of the specific problems and issues connected to AI – some of them have been mentioned above –, but also of the positive potential of this technology to address some of the grand challenges of our time. More fundamentally, the very purpose and raison d’être of business ethics has always been to shed light on the driving values and motivations behind economic activity and to insist on the primacy of human dignity in the economic process. The fast evolvement of AI and its potential to spiral beyond our control adds a new sense of urgency to to this fundamental task. Accordingly, business ethicists should actively get involved in the discussion not only through their scholarship, but also in the policy and practical realm. My sense is that many companies are open to explore collaborative ways to align AI better with human dignity – after all, this is not only an ethical conundrum, but also an entrepreneurial challenge and thus an opportunity for inventive companies.